Monday, April 25
Reaching Out and Reaching Beyond Comfort Zone
I got to hand it to the Hippie Christian for going out of his comfort zone and being willing to seek out someone to share the Good News with. You can check out his experience at Earth Day in SLO .
Friday, April 22
Gifts of the Holy Spirit: Prophecy Cont.
Here are some of the responses that I got back regarding the gifts of prophecy. I think these sum up a good deal of information for us.
Harold...
Monique...
EMAIL#1
Harold...
Many including myself have this gift, I know quite a few. Recognize it is distinctly different from the role of a prophet in the OT. As Paul who had the gift says "we prophesy in part, we know in part" so all prophecy should be discerned by others with the gift present, and all prophecy (gift form) is limited to "exhortation, edification and
comfort" says brother Paul. It's not so spooky and usually confirms what you are already discerning or "checks it". Gifts are not what we focus upon as much as the Giver, seperating us from the lunatic fringe or the carnal like in Corinthians who went overboard. One other thing "personal prophecy is not a gift but a curse when directed towards you, ignore it and keep your sanity!
Monique...
EMAIL#1
I am looking for someone qualified to explain biblically the gifts of the spirit. Personnally I have to tell you that when i became fully aware of what Jesus answered to Nicodemeus, I asked the Lord to accept me as fully committed to him and that I was willing to serve him no matter what the cost was. I pray to be used and That I wanted everything he had for me then It stared to happenned. I would find myself giving people a word of encouragement and telling them what the Lord had to say to them .Word of wisdom In church i found myself standing up and speaking in tongues and someone else had the gift of interpretation. Or the holy Spirit would give me a message for someone or the church. Latter on the holy spirit would wake me up in the middle of the night and give me a word for a specific person. I would get up and write it down. I found no matter what the manifestation was it had to be biblical and it always was. And there always was a confirmation from someone else. And the word given. there was encouragement or warning or guidance and the person that I gave it too was waiting for it or it was confirmed. I never can answer questions about it.that is not my job and after i passed the message . I forgot it . i never keep record of it. that is not my job. The holy spirit is a spirit of order and He will use anyone that is willing to be used. i did not know for years this was a gift of prophecy. I just did what the holy spirit asked me to do. The holy spirit is a spirit of order and wisdom. Very often it ended Thus says the lord. As everything else if you asked truly believeing the lord will be faitfull.
EMAIL #2As you well know God is the author and fininisher of our faith He gave us the comforter, holy spirit John 15 26. but relating to the question asked
1 Cor 12-7
1 Cor 12-12
1 Cor 14-3
1 Cor 14-29
1 Cor 14-33
Everything must be done in faith and guided by the holy spirit and The Word. One will be given the gift of prophecy as needed for the body of christ. The Gift of prophecy come and is fully of god. the same person can have this gift but it is not His and it is vital to understand it The holy spirit is using them. It is vital to realize it is not your in any shape or form. a deep attittude of meekness is important in this matter.Always asking The lord to use us and pray that one's own pride does not interfere. No one can teach you to but the holy spirit.It is truly a divine gift. I have found that one must wanted to be used and most of all is willing to be used in whatever manner god desires. No man can teach the gift of prophecy. It is truly a gift from the holy spirit. And it is always biblical. As it is needed, the holy spirit will use man or woman. I hope this might help you all. In an healthly body all the gifts should be able to be manifested, in God perfect timing. To be a prophet or to be used as a prophet is a very awesome thing, because one has to be completely obedient to the holy spirit and every word given. As one is instructed on time place and person or body , obedience is absolutely vital.It is an awesome responsability. I have wept on the very sobering words or understood the gravity of the situation.but we are just used as a tool.and one must realize that it is god speaking through you. It is not yours to explain, keep or question, you are just the messenger. If the holy Spirit decided to tell you more you shall know it.Remember what is of God is God.
Wednesday, April 20
Too Many Books, Conferences, and Workshops by Harold Behr
This business of Kingdom living is about "now" Jesus says. It's about choices, every step we make. Transparency takes time for hope and trust to develop. This means time together, not time in meetings conferences and an endless parade of futurists books to read. We need to choose what we will do with our waking hours.. Quite frankly I see little time left for those authors and conference speakers to practice and/or prepare now for what they "see"on the horizon. It takes time & proximity in order to listen and to hear one another's struggles.
And consequently we see little"Shalom" or peaceful wholeness developing, rather continuous strife and confusion, blaming it on the devil. It's not a new thing for believers to allow God's Spirit to pour forth from within touching encounters that God gives us with neighbors, fellow sojourners, the hurting and healthy.
I don't really think anyone has a clue what the "emergent church" will look like . I don't expect it to look like an image seen from one's personal vantage point based upon projections tabulated by pollsters and futurists. We do know what it means to live and experience being "simply church" in context with the normative pattern Christ and the early Christ followers model in Scripture. Beyond that I suspect like one writer said to me recently,"It seems anything with emergent attached helps sales". Publishers won't accept his copy without a well known emergent futurist speaker's writing the introduction, based upon what will boost sales.
Our friend Eugene Peterson is right when he speaks of the polluting effect of sales talk in advancing God's Kingdom. I'm old enough to remember the "God is Dead" front cover of Newsweek in the late 60's forecasting the death of the Church. Bishop Pike was interviewed extensively on network news proclaiming God's death. No one forecasted the immediate Jesus People explosion which had Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel on the cover in the pacific ocean baptizing hundreds, or Ruth Carter Stapleton (Jimmy Carter's sister) being interviewed by networks in regards to her role in inner healing and the unforecasted charismatic renewal a few years later. No one knew what God would do then, and I think it's safe to say the same today.
Whatever the Church will look like that our kids and grandkids will worship with will probably look different outwardly but at it's core will have this same DNA of our forefathers, as found in the early Church. Yes, it will be a new generation with somewhat different language and dress, adapted to minister life to a somewhat different culture. But it will have the same "head", and as a "body" will be equipped with the appropriate gifts such as to communicate the Gospel. But thank God we don't have to try and figure it out! All we are called to do is be faithful, be filled daily with His Spirit, and trust and obey.
Isaiah 26:3 (KJV) speaks to this saying; "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed onthee: because he trusteth in thee." Or as the Message phrases it: "People with their minds set on you, you keep completely whole, Steady on their feet, because they keep at it and don't quit." This from the God that owns tomorrow and grants us strength & mercy for Today---Perfect Peace here is that "shalom" that speaks of transformation, health & a sound mind promised by God to us as we keep our minds and hearts focused on the now of today. .",
posted by Harold Behr at Simple Church Blog.
And consequently we see little"Shalom" or peaceful wholeness developing, rather continuous strife and confusion, blaming it on the devil. It's not a new thing for believers to allow God's Spirit to pour forth from within touching encounters that God gives us with neighbors, fellow sojourners, the hurting and healthy.
I don't really think anyone has a clue what the "emergent church" will look like . I don't expect it to look like an image seen from one's personal vantage point based upon projections tabulated by pollsters and futurists. We do know what it means to live and experience being "simply church" in context with the normative pattern Christ and the early Christ followers model in Scripture. Beyond that I suspect like one writer said to me recently,"It seems anything with emergent attached helps sales". Publishers won't accept his copy without a well known emergent futurist speaker's writing the introduction, based upon what will boost sales.
Our friend Eugene Peterson is right when he speaks of the polluting effect of sales talk in advancing God's Kingdom. I'm old enough to remember the "God is Dead" front cover of Newsweek in the late 60's forecasting the death of the Church. Bishop Pike was interviewed extensively on network news proclaiming God's death. No one forecasted the immediate Jesus People explosion which had Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel on the cover in the pacific ocean baptizing hundreds, or Ruth Carter Stapleton (Jimmy Carter's sister) being interviewed by networks in regards to her role in inner healing and the unforecasted charismatic renewal a few years later. No one knew what God would do then, and I think it's safe to say the same today.
Whatever the Church will look like that our kids and grandkids will worship with will probably look different outwardly but at it's core will have this same DNA of our forefathers, as found in the early Church. Yes, it will be a new generation with somewhat different language and dress, adapted to minister life to a somewhat different culture. But it will have the same "head", and as a "body" will be equipped with the appropriate gifts such as to communicate the Gospel. But thank God we don't have to try and figure it out! All we are called to do is be faithful, be filled daily with His Spirit, and trust and obey.
Isaiah 26:3 (KJV) speaks to this saying; "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed onthee: because he trusteth in thee." Or as the Message phrases it: "People with their minds set on you, you keep completely whole, Steady on their feet, because they keep at it and don't quit." This from the God that owns tomorrow and grants us strength & mercy for Today---Perfect Peace here is that "shalom" that speaks of transformation, health & a sound mind promised by God to us as we keep our minds and hearts focused on the now of today. .",
posted by Harold Behr at Simple Church Blog.
Tuesday, April 19
Gifts of the Holy Spirit: Prophecy
I would love to get everyones comments on the definition of the Gift of Prophecy in the context of today's culture and time. I would love to understand it in light of First Corinthians 14 and the later part of I Thessalonians 5. You can email me at this email address
Tonights discussion about the importance of running everything through scriptures much like the Bereans is so important. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change with the culture. The message is the same!
Blessings, great discussion tonight and may God continue to guide us in our discussion and search for truth in light of scripture.
Tonights discussion about the importance of running everything through scriptures much like the Bereans is so important. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change with the culture. The message is the same!
Blessings, great discussion tonight and may God continue to guide us in our discussion and search for truth in light of scripture.
Saturday, April 16
The Old Piano
Harold Behr had to recently move a piano... I love his thoughts on how that relates to a paid clergy. They need to be paid equippers not paid employees!
Not wanting to see the mover flattened or piano tumbling down the mountain side shattering into pieces, I quickly rushed in to help and we barely made it into a safe place The professional appreciated it, I felt rewarded, and no I didn't reinjure my back. Could the Church morph or move into a simple, organic body of believers that received it's leaders as not paid hirelings to "move the old piano" but rather as the equippers Paul called for in Ephesians 4, for the body to the work of the ministry, thus not exhausting and supplanting the calling of pastors.
Check out the entire story here.
Not wanting to see the mover flattened or piano tumbling down the mountain side shattering into pieces, I quickly rushed in to help and we barely made it into a safe place The professional appreciated it, I felt rewarded, and no I didn't reinjure my back. Could the Church morph or move into a simple, organic body of believers that received it's leaders as not paid hirelings to "move the old piano" but rather as the equippers Paul called for in Ephesians 4, for the body to the work of the ministry, thus not exhausting and supplanting the calling of pastors.
Check out the entire story here.
Participation in Simple Church Gatherings...
Check out Roger Thoman's blog on Participatory Gatherings... Here is a little sample.
Ahhh, but there are so many challenges to participatory gatherings. What about those who use this format to dominate the gathering? What about those who, without realizing it, simply talk and talk and talk leaving little room for the whole Body to participate. This is not easy. Everyone present has to learn to take responsibility for keeping the premise in place: everyone matters, everyone shares, everyone has gifts.
BUT, here's the payoff. True, participatory, whole-Body gatherings automatically develops and encourages the spiritual gifts of every Believer. It just happens! The format itself promotes this healthy flourishing of life. The participatory format itself is biblical, powerful, and empowering. It's difficult to do, but worth the effort!
Don't forget to sign up for the House Church Conference in Santa Maria on May 6-7th of 2005.
Ahhh, but there are so many challenges to participatory gatherings. What about those who use this format to dominate the gathering? What about those who, without realizing it, simply talk and talk and talk leaving little room for the whole Body to participate. This is not easy. Everyone present has to learn to take responsibility for keeping the premise in place: everyone matters, everyone shares, everyone has gifts.
BUT, here's the payoff. True, participatory, whole-Body gatherings automatically develops and encourages the spiritual gifts of every Believer. It just happens! The format itself promotes this healthy flourishing of life. The participatory format itself is biblical, powerful, and empowering. It's difficult to do, but worth the effort!
Don't forget to sign up for the House Church Conference in Santa Maria on May 6-7th of 2005.
Friday, April 15
Flickr test post... Learning to post pictures on blog...
This is a test post from 
, a fancy photo sharing thing.
To learn more about this, as I am learning... go to here .
, a fancy photo sharing thing.To learn more about this, as I am learning... go to here .
Thursday, April 14
Relationally Rich and Information Appropriate...
Barna has pointed out a trend in people pursuing a relationship with God outside of the traditional church. In a discussion with one traditional church pastor, I pointed out that method does not matter, within guidelines of scripture, what matters is just pointing them towards Christ. We need to each pursue the way that God has called us to reach the outchurched. This is a short version of our discussion of the definition of "Church"
Does size matter? What does this look like in light of I Cor. 14 and Acts 2?
So would a simple definition for church be “people who pursue a relationship with Jesus Christ, together”. Is it 2,4,8,10,20,40,80,etc?
The question you will probably ask then is for a definition of relationship. ”What does relationship mean?” So I will then explain what relationship means to me. A relationship is an interactive, non-static, dynamic exchange of life and purpose. This is both with God and others. I believe that in the context of a relationship (Active, non static, dynamic) with Jesus the gathering of believers have something to share in common. It is when people come to the gathering/meeting without the relationship with God/Jesus Christ that the “gathering/meeting” becomes stale and lifeless. If people have a place to exchange “relationship”, they begin to see it as having value. (I Thess 2:6-9)
I believe what Barna is saying is that people are looking for this interactive, non-static, dynamic exchange of life and purpose with each other and with Jesus Christ. I think he is pointing to a cultural change that is taking place. People are “relationally empty and information rich.” Information about God is no longer the basis for going to church/gatherings/meetings. Relationship with God and each other is what matters. The current culture is just saying that "for them there is a more effective way” to do this.
The challenge for the church is then to bridge the relational gap not with more information about God but a relationship with Jesus and with each other. Many are socially and emotionally unable to do this in the current context of “church”. They do not understand how to bridge that gap by themselves (go to a different church and try to get connected to people, it does not work) in the context of yesterday’s traditional non-participatory format.
Some are still able, some are not, and many are heading towards the “not”. They are looking for something that is “Relationally rich and information appropriate” They are seekers of “connection” not “information”. That is the challenge as I see it. I am not saying that our churches are unnecessary but rather that other forms should be welcome. It is easy for both sides of Jordan to get “excited” about their method, but method is just that... A method of connecting people to a living God, Jesus Christ! We need to cheer each other on! I have made the mistake many times in this journey of trying to compare and contrast... a trap of the evil one!
Just some thoughts... I think we are all being challenged to remember that we are all in this together! Let's keep our eyes off of each other, on Jesus Christ, and on those who he has called us to equip and reach.
Does size matter? What does this look like in light of I Cor. 14 and Acts 2?
So would a simple definition for church be “people who pursue a relationship with Jesus Christ, together”. Is it 2,4,8,10,20,40,80,etc?
The question you will probably ask then is for a definition of relationship. ”What does relationship mean?” So I will then explain what relationship means to me. A relationship is an interactive, non-static, dynamic exchange of life and purpose. This is both with God and others. I believe that in the context of a relationship (Active, non static, dynamic) with Jesus the gathering of believers have something to share in common. It is when people come to the gathering/meeting without the relationship with God/Jesus Christ that the “gathering/meeting” becomes stale and lifeless. If people have a place to exchange “relationship”, they begin to see it as having value. (I Thess 2:6-9)
I believe what Barna is saying is that people are looking for this interactive, non-static, dynamic exchange of life and purpose with each other and with Jesus Christ. I think he is pointing to a cultural change that is taking place. People are “relationally empty and information rich.” Information about God is no longer the basis for going to church/gatherings/meetings. Relationship with God and each other is what matters. The current culture is just saying that "for them there is a more effective way” to do this.
The challenge for the church is then to bridge the relational gap not with more information about God but a relationship with Jesus and with each other. Many are socially and emotionally unable to do this in the current context of “church”. They do not understand how to bridge that gap by themselves (go to a different church and try to get connected to people, it does not work) in the context of yesterday’s traditional non-participatory format.
Some are still able, some are not, and many are heading towards the “not”. They are looking for something that is “Relationally rich and information appropriate” They are seekers of “connection” not “information”. That is the challenge as I see it. I am not saying that our churches are unnecessary but rather that other forms should be welcome. It is easy for both sides of Jordan to get “excited” about their method, but method is just that... A method of connecting people to a living God, Jesus Christ! We need to cheer each other on! I have made the mistake many times in this journey of trying to compare and contrast... a trap of the evil one!
Just some thoughts... I think we are all being challenged to remember that we are all in this together! Let's keep our eyes off of each other, on Jesus Christ, and on those who he has called us to equip and reach.
Tuesday, April 5
Balancing the Bar Stool of Simple Church
Much like a three legged bar stool, Simple Church needs to have three things holding it in balance. Our motivation, our meetings, and our ministry need to be in balance with each other. Let me give you a short definition for each.
Our Motivation
Our motivation contains the idea that we are to be motivated by the love of God and the only way to understand the love of God is to live in a loving relationship with Him. Our motivation comes from living in a daily relationship with our Creator. We are motivated because of His love for us. We exist because of His love for us. We must make sure that this leg of the stool is strong and secure. We must spend, not daily, but minute by minute communion with God through the power of His Holy Spirit. We practice living in His presence by reading the Bible, praying, spending time in silence, fasting, and other disciplines that Jesus showed us as an example in His life. This becomes our motivation to live life to the fullest. This motivation affects our relationships, Family, Spiritual Family, our Friends, and those outside our circle of influence. Our motivation is about living in relationship with Jesus Christ, that relationship influences everything about us: our family, our friends, our jobs, everything.
Our Ministry
Our ministry may be personal or it may be something that God has laid on the heart of the Meeting. God calls us all to be light in a dark world. He calls us to be involved in the ministry of reconciliation. Reconciling others to their creator. We believe that as a result, God has called us all to get involved in our community is some way. That could be participating in a Homework Club helping kids learn how to read English, to sponsoring a website reaching a certain demographic of people (see www.hippiechristian.org), or teaching others how to paint. We must rub shoulders with those outside our Meetings and outside the body of Christ. We must pray for these people and look for the opportunity to share the motivation that we have in our lives. People will ask the questions, we need to be ready to give a response. Ministry is the intersection of our life with the lives of those who do not know Jesus Christ as Friend. Our ministry is about living in relationship with those who have not experienced the life changing love of God.
Our Meeting
Our meetings are for the purpose of giving testimony to what God has been doing in and through our lives. Our meetings exist as a time of mutual exchange of information and ideas. We share our lives during these times. Young and old participate in a mutual exchange of how God worked and led in each life during the week. During these exchanges we gather naturally around a meal. We spontaneously pray for items that arise. We share text from the Bible that has been meaningful to us that previous week. We participate in giving financially to what God may be asking the meeting to do. We handle any items of "Family Business" that may arise. We try to live out 1 Corinthians 14:26, 1 Thessalonians 2:8, and Acts 2:42-47. Our meetings are about living in relationship with each other and encouraging each other to live a life connected to God.
I would love some comments or feed back on this. Just email me. Click Here To Write Me I believe Simple Church needs to be simple.
Our Motivation
Our motivation contains the idea that we are to be motivated by the love of God and the only way to understand the love of God is to live in a loving relationship with Him. Our motivation comes from living in a daily relationship with our Creator. We are motivated because of His love for us. We exist because of His love for us. We must make sure that this leg of the stool is strong and secure. We must spend, not daily, but minute by minute communion with God through the power of His Holy Spirit. We practice living in His presence by reading the Bible, praying, spending time in silence, fasting, and other disciplines that Jesus showed us as an example in His life. This becomes our motivation to live life to the fullest. This motivation affects our relationships, Family, Spiritual Family, our Friends, and those outside our circle of influence. Our motivation is about living in relationship with Jesus Christ, that relationship influences everything about us: our family, our friends, our jobs, everything.
Our Ministry
Our ministry may be personal or it may be something that God has laid on the heart of the Meeting. God calls us all to be light in a dark world. He calls us to be involved in the ministry of reconciliation. Reconciling others to their creator. We believe that as a result, God has called us all to get involved in our community is some way. That could be participating in a Homework Club helping kids learn how to read English, to sponsoring a website reaching a certain demographic of people (see www.hippiechristian.org), or teaching others how to paint. We must rub shoulders with those outside our Meetings and outside the body of Christ. We must pray for these people and look for the opportunity to share the motivation that we have in our lives. People will ask the questions, we need to be ready to give a response. Ministry is the intersection of our life with the lives of those who do not know Jesus Christ as Friend. Our ministry is about living in relationship with those who have not experienced the life changing love of God.
Our Meeting
Our meetings are for the purpose of giving testimony to what God has been doing in and through our lives. Our meetings exist as a time of mutual exchange of information and ideas. We share our lives during these times. Young and old participate in a mutual exchange of how God worked and led in each life during the week. During these exchanges we gather naturally around a meal. We spontaneously pray for items that arise. We share text from the Bible that has been meaningful to us that previous week. We participate in giving financially to what God may be asking the meeting to do. We handle any items of "Family Business" that may arise. We try to live out 1 Corinthians 14:26, 1 Thessalonians 2:8, and Acts 2:42-47. Our meetings are about living in relationship with each other and encouraging each other to live a life connected to God.
I would love some comments or feed back on this. Just email me. Click Here To Write Me I believe Simple Church needs to be simple.
Grieve Not the Holy Spirit
Barincles are simply barriers to living a life of freedom and joy. We were made to commune with God all mighty. Our souls, much like creation, yearns for a day when we will be with Him and be in his presence. Until then, we have the gift of the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised his disciples and those that came after him, a powerful replacement, a paraclete, a substitute for himself. We need to make sure that we live in such a way that we listen, respond, and respect this gift that was given to us upon the time of our salvation.
In Paul's letter to the Ephesians he talks about grieving the Spirit of God that is in us.(Ephesians 4:30) He talks about sin that creeps in and creates a wedge between us and the joy of our salvation. Lets make sure that we do not allow ourselves to become so proud that we do not need God to help us through our daily tasks. Lets make sure that we do not allow our ego's to get in the way of our joy. The Holy Spirit of God, the inner light, is there to lead us, guide us, commune with us, and enlighten us to the truth of God.
Prayer: Lord, I do sense when your Spirit is grieved. I do sense when my pride and my ego gets in the way of having a true relationship with you. Blessed be your name oh Lord, Blessed be your name!
In Paul's letter to the Ephesians he talks about grieving the Spirit of God that is in us.(Ephesians 4:30) He talks about sin that creeps in and creates a wedge between us and the joy of our salvation. Lets make sure that we do not allow ourselves to become so proud that we do not need God to help us through our daily tasks. Lets make sure that we do not allow our ego's to get in the way of our joy. The Holy Spirit of God, the inner light, is there to lead us, guide us, commune with us, and enlighten us to the truth of God.
Prayer: Lord, I do sense when your Spirit is grieved. I do sense when my pride and my ego gets in the way of having a true relationship with you. Blessed be your name oh Lord, Blessed be your name!
Monday, April 4
Is your underbelly filled with barnicles?
Harold did a grand job of talking about the sin issues in our lives. I find the word picture helpful in thinking about my own daily struggles with the flesh.
Visit Click here to view Bilgewater-Barnacles.
Visit Click here to view Bilgewater-Barnacles.
Friday, April 1
Simple Church/House Church vs. Traditional Church
I encourage all of you to look at the latest blog by Harold Behr. I think it sums up the issue quite well!
Visit Harold Behr's Simple Church Blog
Blessings!
Visit Harold Behr's Simple Church Blog
Blessings!
Friday, March 18
Fellowship and Fun
Tonight we engaged in a grand time of fellowship and fun. A Friday night with everyone eating, playing games, laughing, and being entertained. It so reminds me of the verse below...
1Ths. 2:8 (NIV) "We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us."
Becoming dear to each other requires sharing. Sharing life is critical, sharing laughter is critical, sharing your joys, and sharing your tears is critical. We must not only give each other the gospel message/Biblical information, but we must share our lives as well.
Share your life with your gathering of believers. Connect on a "fun" level. Learning to laugh together will prepare you for the challenging times.
Blessings... Lord may we learn to laugh together along this journey.
1Ths. 2:8 (NIV) "We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us."
Becoming dear to each other requires sharing. Sharing life is critical, sharing laughter is critical, sharing your joys, and sharing your tears is critical. We must not only give each other the gospel message/Biblical information, but we must share our lives as well.
Share your life with your gathering of believers. Connect on a "fun" level. Learning to laugh together will prepare you for the challenging times.
Blessings... Lord may we learn to laugh together along this journey.
Wednesday, March 16
Some Gripes about House Church...
Click here and read some great thoughts about House Church Movement gripes. Click here
Friday, March 11
Sick People Need Directions and Maybe a Ride to the Doctor
I am dedicating my blog for the next couple of weeks to discuss how to graciously encourage believers to grow in their relationship with Jesus Christ and their reliance on the power & presence of the Holy Spirit. I am not a perfect human by any means. I struggle with all the craziness of this earthly flesh. When I do not live in the power and presence of the Spirit of God, no good thing comes from me nor do I see spiritual fruit for the harvest. May we think through how to take up our cross daily and at the same time encourage others to follow Jesus Christ. As one theologian said, "It's not the healthy that need a doctor but the sick, and boy oh boy am I sick and tired."
Some Questions to Ponder and Discuss in the Future... (Matt. 9:9-13; Luke 5:31,32)
• What do the "sick" look like today?
• Where do we find the "sick" who need the Doctor?
• How do we encourage the "sick" to seek the Doctor?
• When do we encourage the "sick" to tell others about the Doctor?
• Who has the time to help the "sick" get well?
• To what extent do we get involved with the "sick"?
• Why don't we pay someone else to handle the "sick"?
• Do the "sick" get better overnight?
• What are some signs of health in a "sick" person?
Prayer:
God, so many times my best intentions are mere rags. I get out ahead of you and I fail. My pride becomes a stumbling block to others. My frustration bears no spiritual fruit. May I learn to live in the shadow of your grace and learn to seek your presence throughout my day. May I be a peacemaker. Help me be a healer of wounds! Help me along this path. May I be so compelled by your love that I walk uprightly and in the process guide others along this journey. May I be gracious in my speech to all. May I learn your wisdom and walk in your ways. I love to get out of the boat and walk, however Lord, I need to keep my eyes on you during this journey. Teach me to not look to my left or right, but stick to the task before me. Help me not get distracted with things that distract my focus from my journey towards eternity with you.
Some Questions to Ponder and Discuss in the Future... (Matt. 9:9-13; Luke 5:31,32)
• What do the "sick" look like today?
• Where do we find the "sick" who need the Doctor?
• How do we encourage the "sick" to seek the Doctor?
• When do we encourage the "sick" to tell others about the Doctor?
• Who has the time to help the "sick" get well?
• To what extent do we get involved with the "sick"?
• Why don't we pay someone else to handle the "sick"?
• Do the "sick" get better overnight?
• What are some signs of health in a "sick" person?
Prayer:
God, so many times my best intentions are mere rags. I get out ahead of you and I fail. My pride becomes a stumbling block to others. My frustration bears no spiritual fruit. May I learn to live in the shadow of your grace and learn to seek your presence throughout my day. May I be a peacemaker. Help me be a healer of wounds! Help me along this path. May I be so compelled by your love that I walk uprightly and in the process guide others along this journey. May I be gracious in my speech to all. May I learn your wisdom and walk in your ways. I love to get out of the boat and walk, however Lord, I need to keep my eyes on you during this journey. Teach me to not look to my left or right, but stick to the task before me. Help me not get distracted with things that distract my focus from my journey towards eternity with you.
Undershepherds who Grow People not Programs
I have a dear friend who shared with me some thoughts on being a gracious leaders/ overseers of our home fellowships (simple churches, redemptive fellowships, etc.) . This is most timely for me, as I am struggling with a situation in which I feel a brother is being dealt with too harshly. We must learn the art of leading by example and leading with grace and mercy. Always focused on their potential in Jesus Christ and never dependent on us/others for their growth but rather immersing them in the love of God, His truth that we find in the Bible and His Holy Spirits ever leading voice. The love of God is what compels us away from sin and pain. The love of God is what sanctifies us. His truth permeates us so deeply, that it invades even the private parts of our souls.
I have never met any believer or unchurched person who has taken great strides in their walk towards God under the the weight of condemnation or shame brought about by other believers or leaders. I have found it to be the opposite. We must learn to be redemptive leaders that oversee people with a hand of mercy and grace. A gracious gentle voice of encouragement that guides them to the lover of their souls, Jesus Christ the High Priest. The one who has gone before us and will never leave us or forsake us.
May we understand this type of leadership. May we live in community with those are willing to bring others along. Jesus Christ paid the price for my sin. The shame and guilt was felt at the cross by my replacement, Jesus Christ. Why do we continue to leave heavy burdens on the back of those seeking God? I do not know? The lie of Satan is to continue to lead people by bondage and fear rather than love. The love of God is freedom and joy, not shame and guilt.
The below thoughts are from Harold Behr, an apostolic figure who God has graciously brought into my life to help guide me to the lover of my soul, Jesus Christ. Praise God for the Barnabass's in our lives. I hope you find this thought provoking and an encouragement to what you may already be doing.
___
Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:41 AM
undershepherds@googlegroups.com
1 Peter 5:2-3 (MsgB)
[2] Here's my concern: that you care for God's flock with all the diligence of a shepherd. Not because you have to, but because you want to please God. Not calculating what you can get out of it, but acting spontaneously. [3] Not bossily telling others what to do, but tenderly showing them the way.
Have you ever wondered how Jesus could gather such a Church of 12 with their questionable and unscrupled pasts? Picture how quickly they would head for the back door in most of our "Churches" in the west today. We can't honestly say that their jealousy, carnality or self serving interests vanished after Jesus called them, for the Scriptures are full examples to the contrary.
No, I want to suggest that that small band of disciples wanted to be around Jesus, and were drawn by the Truth he lived and taught. Even more important then that for you and I to grasp was the "Climate" he cultivated. A Climate of tender hearted Mercy. And so, as undershepherds in his Church today, perhaps we need to reflect upon what kind of climate we create. The natural tendency and practice of church planters (myself included on times past) was to create a conditional atmosphere of mercy. That is, as long as we sense we are maintaining control and people are responding to our direction we'll be gentle and kind. But I have in the past so loudly blew the clarion call of Vision, that I injured some along the way. Consider this;
"Fr. M.A. Couturier (the Dominican apostle of sacred art, not the ecumenist) declared with perfect truth that many Christians "are enclosed in their Church and in their faith as others are enclosed in their Party. They aspire to a totalitarian state: and none of this has anything to do with the Gospel."
In fact, the climate of totalism, which as we know to our own cost can very easily become that of religion itself, is a climate of security purchased by servile resignation under human power: obedience to the authority of might rather than freedom in the climate of life-giving love and mercy.
This, of course, raises a most difficult, not to say most urgent, problem of authority in the visible structure of the Church. There must obviously be some visible authority and there must be some form of law in any institutional structure. This authority and law must be justified, as also the sacraments and the Sabbath are, by being propter hominess. They must serve only to protect and preserve the climate of mercy, or life-giving forgiveness and reconciliation. Hence, authority and power become abusive when they become ends in themselves to which the good of persons becomes subservient: when, in other words, souls for whom Christ died are allowed to be destroyed in order that power may be preserved intact.
The climate of mercy, which is the climate of the new creation, depends on the realization that all men are acceptable before God since the Word was made man, dwelt among us, died on the Cross for us, rose from the dead, and is enthroned in our flesh, our humanity, and in the glory of God. Hence, all that is required for a man to be acceptable before God, and a recipient of mercy, is for him to be a man and a sinner. (I did not come to call the just, but sinners . . . Matthew 9:13; Romans 5:8).
We ourselves are not entitled to be more demanding than God. Whoever is acceptable to Him is, therefore,
acceptable to us, and this is the test of our faith and of our obedience to Him (John 15:12, 17; 12:34-35), that we become to some extent able to be merciful to others as He has been merciful to us, knowing that this mercy is the cohesive power that establishes and manifests the father's love in the living and unified Mystical Body of the Son (John 17:11-12, 21-22)." (This is part of a tribute to Albert Schweitzer written by an obscure monk, aptly titled "The Climate of Mercy)
So it's the totalitarian rule of leadership that destroys souls as it excludes and precludes and functions as a mediator between God and man that cannot be tolerated amongst the simple church undershepherd's approach to oversight.
Rather, all we do as Christ followers, should permeate and be led by the gracious Spirit of Christ. In the end we we will find our fellowships to be "mercy ships".Such is the eschatological climate of the new creation, in which pardon replaces sacrifice,(Math. 9:13) and the whole world is filled with the mercy of God as the waters cover the sea. Note; This starts towards ourselves, our families then the missional fellowship etc etc.
___
I would encourage you to get in on the discussion at undershepherds@googlegroups.com or visit www.simplechurches.net Just request to be part of the group discussion.
Blessings and may we all strive to be gracious overseers of those who God brings into our sphere of influence. It must first begin with our relationship with God, then at home, and then move out from there.
I have never met any believer or unchurched person who has taken great strides in their walk towards God under the the weight of condemnation or shame brought about by other believers or leaders. I have found it to be the opposite. We must learn to be redemptive leaders that oversee people with a hand of mercy and grace. A gracious gentle voice of encouragement that guides them to the lover of their souls, Jesus Christ the High Priest. The one who has gone before us and will never leave us or forsake us.
May we understand this type of leadership. May we live in community with those are willing to bring others along. Jesus Christ paid the price for my sin. The shame and guilt was felt at the cross by my replacement, Jesus Christ. Why do we continue to leave heavy burdens on the back of those seeking God? I do not know? The lie of Satan is to continue to lead people by bondage and fear rather than love. The love of God is freedom and joy, not shame and guilt.
The below thoughts are from Harold Behr, an apostolic figure who God has graciously brought into my life to help guide me to the lover of my soul, Jesus Christ. Praise God for the Barnabass's in our lives. I hope you find this thought provoking and an encouragement to what you may already be doing.
___
Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:41 AM
undershepherds@googlegroups.com
1 Peter 5:2-3 (MsgB)
[2] Here's my concern: that you care for God's flock with all the diligence of a shepherd. Not because you have to, but because you want to please God. Not calculating what you can get out of it, but acting spontaneously. [3] Not bossily telling others what to do, but tenderly showing them the way.
Have you ever wondered how Jesus could gather such a Church of 12 with their questionable and unscrupled pasts? Picture how quickly they would head for the back door in most of our "Churches" in the west today. We can't honestly say that their jealousy, carnality or self serving interests vanished after Jesus called them, for the Scriptures are full examples to the contrary.
No, I want to suggest that that small band of disciples wanted to be around Jesus, and were drawn by the Truth he lived and taught. Even more important then that for you and I to grasp was the "Climate" he cultivated. A Climate of tender hearted Mercy. And so, as undershepherds in his Church today, perhaps we need to reflect upon what kind of climate we create. The natural tendency and practice of church planters (myself included on times past) was to create a conditional atmosphere of mercy. That is, as long as we sense we are maintaining control and people are responding to our direction we'll be gentle and kind. But I have in the past so loudly blew the clarion call of Vision, that I injured some along the way. Consider this;
"Fr. M.A. Couturier (the Dominican apostle of sacred art, not the ecumenist) declared with perfect truth that many Christians "are enclosed in their Church and in their faith as others are enclosed in their Party. They aspire to a totalitarian state: and none of this has anything to do with the Gospel."
In fact, the climate of totalism, which as we know to our own cost can very easily become that of religion itself, is a climate of security purchased by servile resignation under human power: obedience to the authority of might rather than freedom in the climate of life-giving love and mercy.
This, of course, raises a most difficult, not to say most urgent, problem of authority in the visible structure of the Church. There must obviously be some visible authority and there must be some form of law in any institutional structure. This authority and law must be justified, as also the sacraments and the Sabbath are, by being propter hominess. They must serve only to protect and preserve the climate of mercy, or life-giving forgiveness and reconciliation. Hence, authority and power become abusive when they become ends in themselves to which the good of persons becomes subservient: when, in other words, souls for whom Christ died are allowed to be destroyed in order that power may be preserved intact.
The climate of mercy, which is the climate of the new creation, depends on the realization that all men are acceptable before God since the Word was made man, dwelt among us, died on the Cross for us, rose from the dead, and is enthroned in our flesh, our humanity, and in the glory of God. Hence, all that is required for a man to be acceptable before God, and a recipient of mercy, is for him to be a man and a sinner. (I did not come to call the just, but sinners . . . Matthew 9:13; Romans 5:8).
We ourselves are not entitled to be more demanding than God. Whoever is acceptable to Him is, therefore,
acceptable to us, and this is the test of our faith and of our obedience to Him (John 15:12, 17; 12:34-35), that we become to some extent able to be merciful to others as He has been merciful to us, knowing that this mercy is the cohesive power that establishes and manifests the father's love in the living and unified Mystical Body of the Son (John 17:11-12, 21-22)." (This is part of a tribute to Albert Schweitzer written by an obscure monk, aptly titled "The Climate of Mercy)
So it's the totalitarian rule of leadership that destroys souls as it excludes and precludes and functions as a mediator between God and man that cannot be tolerated amongst the simple church undershepherd's approach to oversight.
Rather, all we do as Christ followers, should permeate and be led by the gracious Spirit of Christ. In the end we we will find our fellowships to be "mercy ships".Such is the eschatological climate of the new creation, in which pardon replaces sacrifice,(Math. 9:13) and the whole world is filled with the mercy of God as the waters cover the sea. Note; This starts towards ourselves, our families then the missional fellowship etc etc.
___
I would encourage you to get in on the discussion at undershepherds@googlegroups.com or visit www.simplechurches.net Just request to be part of the group discussion.
Blessings and may we all strive to be gracious overseers of those who God brings into our sphere of influence. It must first begin with our relationship with God, then at home, and then move out from there.
Tuesday, March 8
Abba Father...
Tonight was a great meeting! As a varied group of believers, we began studying the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives and what role leadership plays in the simple church model. We ended up the last two weeks discussing the origins of the laying on of hands. This discussion has not been just a run through the Bible of verses, but rather a meaningful look at the historical and cultural meaning of "laying hands on" someone or something. Tonight we tried to get into a discussion of healing and how that works within the church.
We ended up talking about the role of faith in our lives. This seems to be the normal route we go. We dive into one thing and the Lord at times leads us to discuss other items. Tonight was no different. What role does faith have when you pray over someone that is sick? We went from there to our own personal stories of how God increased our faith through lifes crazy events.
We ended up talking about how our prayers are important and that we do have something to do with the events here on earth. Our prayers matter because we are talking to a relational being, God. God desires to relate to His creation. He created us for His enjoyment and His delight. Therefore, God desires to relate and intervene in our circumstances and our endeavors.
One comment was that we can "work" God like a child works his parents. We all laughed but I began to think about the truth of that statement. Yes, we can "work" God or maybe a better way to say it is that we can "talk things over" with God in a open and transparent way. Because God is real and He does care about His creation. I am created by God therefore He does care about even the little things in my life.
God you are real, I confess that I do not always "talk things over" with you. Your truth is not only in scripture but through your interactions with your creation. God, I think I am going to "work you over" on a couple of things this next week! :-)
We ended up talking about the role of faith in our lives. This seems to be the normal route we go. We dive into one thing and the Lord at times leads us to discuss other items. Tonight was no different. What role does faith have when you pray over someone that is sick? We went from there to our own personal stories of how God increased our faith through lifes crazy events.
We ended up talking about how our prayers are important and that we do have something to do with the events here on earth. Our prayers matter because we are talking to a relational being, God. God desires to relate to His creation. He created us for His enjoyment and His delight. Therefore, God desires to relate and intervene in our circumstances and our endeavors.
One comment was that we can "work" God like a child works his parents. We all laughed but I began to think about the truth of that statement. Yes, we can "work" God or maybe a better way to say it is that we can "talk things over" with God in a open and transparent way. Because God is real and He does care about His creation. I am created by God therefore He does care about even the little things in my life.
God you are real, I confess that I do not always "talk things over" with you. Your truth is not only in scripture but through your interactions with your creation. God, I think I am going to "work you over" on a couple of things this next week! :-)
Sunday, March 6
Faith Walk...
Check out the link below to view some thoughts on Faith and God's Promises. This is from the Simple Church Blog of Harold Behr.
You can read the entire text here if you wish.
This is a quote from the blog...
My thoughts on the faith walk...
The foundation of faith is critical in the development of any God given vision. Faith is nothing less than taking God at His word and puting action to your belief in His provision for your future. I am humbled constantly by the reminder to "Humble ourselves before the Lord and He will lift us up in due time." It is a humbling thing to walk by faith. Family, friends and church could disown you, however the walk of faith requires forward motion in spite of our circumstance or what others think of us or our direction. Yes, faith in action requires a future walking rather than a future thinking! We can walk our way into faithful thinking much faster than we can think our way into faithful walking. Figure that one out! :-) Wow... get moving for the Lord! My brain hurts! Time for Bed!
You can read the entire text here if you wish.
This is a quote from the blog...
"We need to recognize whether it’s remembering the past or in this case the future, there is no tangible substance within the thought process. Faith is hanging our body and actions upon the promises written upon our heart. Grasping and appropriating the future is part of our forward march of faith! Faith is the currency of heaven, and it’s how we enter the gates, and how we experience the "Ancient-Future" Church here and now."
My thoughts on the faith walk...
The foundation of faith is critical in the development of any God given vision. Faith is nothing less than taking God at His word and puting action to your belief in His provision for your future. I am humbled constantly by the reminder to "Humble ourselves before the Lord and He will lift us up in due time." It is a humbling thing to walk by faith. Family, friends and church could disown you, however the walk of faith requires forward motion in spite of our circumstance or what others think of us or our direction. Yes, faith in action requires a future walking rather than a future thinking! We can walk our way into faithful thinking much faster than we can think our way into faithful walking. Figure that one out! :-) Wow... get moving for the Lord! My brain hurts! Time for Bed!
Leadership:Questions of Authority (House Church Blog)
This comes from a friends House Church Blog , Roger Thoman. You might find this interesting. I believe that spiritual authority is built upon a strong godly relationship with each other.
The Question of Authority in House Church
Tony Dale has written out his responses to someone asking about house church and the question of authority. You can read the entire text here if you wish. Here are some excerpts:
How do other house churches deal with the issue of being under authority?
[Tony] This varies widely between house churches. Most that we find ourselves associated with recognize who the people were who helped them come into being. As Paul stated to the Corinthians: "For even if you had ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, you have only one spiritual father. For I became your father in Christ Jesus when I preached the Good News to you. So I ask you to follow my example and do as I do" (1 Cor 4:15-16). Clearly Paul expected, like any parent, that his children would recognize him, not because of some office that he held, but because of the relationships that had been built.
Is authority that big of an issue (with denominations it certainly is)?
[Tony] Another great question. My answer would be a resounding, "No." It really is not a big issue. It is the natural outflow of relationship. If authority is not based on relationship, but on postition, then we have moved into that which Jesus forbid! See Matthew 20:24-27.
We believe in multiple leadership -- having at least two leaders for each house church... and we are considering setting up an advisory/accountability board. This would be a group of godly men we would be accountable to.
[Tony] I think that you are probably still thinking in rather traditional ways. Leadership in churches is always a plurality, but this is probably expressed best within a network of churches, say in a region or town. Most house churches are more like family. You know who the parents are in a family. You don't have to delegate this type of relationship. For example, in the network of home churches around here there is usually a couple or a couple of singles who will take responsibilty to help facilitate the group. But the authority here is not that of being the "leader" but rather of the parent who is helping by serving the group. Between the local network of house churches, the "leaders" or facilitators would together constitute a team leadership of the network. But even there we keep things very fluid, and encourage anyone that they are welcome to come to any of the "leadership" times that they want to come to. We also encourage input from outside from apostolic and prophetic folk (see Eph. 2:20) that we love and respect. But that does not give those people "authority over" us, but rather lets us draw on their wisdom and respond to their maturity.
(Just a wee side note: Tony will be one of the presenters at the California Regional House Church Conference in May--HouseChurchLife.com
Posted by roger on March 06, 2005 at 04:28 PM | Permalink
You can link to Rogers Blog above...
Saturday, March 5
Leadership in the Simple Church
This is a blog from Simple Church leader Harold Behr. I find it encouraging and sobering at the same time.
Responsible Commissioning 1 Timothy 5:22
I believe one of the darker truths about Simple Church Development these days is the almost cavalier disregard for what the Apostle Paul learned and wrote Timothy as found in 1 Tim. 5:22 (MsgB) Don't appoint people to church leadership positions too hastily. If a person is involved in some serious sins, you don't want to become an unwitting accomplice.---." History teaches this mistake resulting in shipwrecked lives in the midst of most "moves" of God over the centuries and yet-----here we go again.
This was brought home to me again recently when a all around very popular & gifted younger SC leader candidate that we launched (with probation) then within removed from leadership shortly later because of some serious personal daliences with sin (non repentant), (with much questioning from onlookers). This was a few years ago and admittedly there was significant second "guessing" and doubt as whether "Did we do the right thing", until yesterday when this brother was arrested for, and confessed to sexual abuse with a live in child. After the sadness passed and was replaced with sobriety I realized the approach God led us towards exhasustive Assessment in northwest and southwest Friends (myself) are requiring for any SC leaders we commission for the SC Network we undershepherd is in the spirit of what Paul is referring to in this passage. Immediately some of you might say "there they go again" that is,adding restrictions that stifle the spontaneous expansion of the Church.
The Truth is just the opposite. Apostolic Oversight in the Spirit of Ephesians 4:11 speaks explicitly to the contrary. At times I believe in our zeal to see a "movement" emerge we are being deceived, substituting simplistic perspective and naievity for the simple truths of church multiplication. Let's be responsive to the Spirit of discernment and be careful to "build carefully" in accordance to Paul's word in 1 Cor. 3. Because the work of disciplemaking in the SC world is that of "impartation" rather then transference of information---we want leaders in place that are pursuing Christ and the holiness He imparts. Harold here saying let's not repeat the mistakes of past revivals! We want to join Paul in having SC overseers be able to say with clear conscience "Follow Christ as you see me do".
posted by Harold Behr
Responsible Commissioning 1 Timothy 5:22
I believe one of the darker truths about Simple Church Development these days is the almost cavalier disregard for what the Apostle Paul learned and wrote Timothy as found in 1 Tim. 5:22 (MsgB) Don't appoint people to church leadership positions too hastily. If a person is involved in some serious sins, you don't want to become an unwitting accomplice.---." History teaches this mistake resulting in shipwrecked lives in the midst of most "moves" of God over the centuries and yet-----here we go again.
This was brought home to me again recently when a all around very popular & gifted younger SC leader candidate that we launched (with probation) then within removed from leadership shortly later because of some serious personal daliences with sin (non repentant), (with much questioning from onlookers). This was a few years ago and admittedly there was significant second "guessing" and doubt as whether "Did we do the right thing", until yesterday when this brother was arrested for, and confessed to sexual abuse with a live in child. After the sadness passed and was replaced with sobriety I realized the approach God led us towards exhasustive Assessment in northwest and southwest Friends (myself) are requiring for any SC leaders we commission for the SC Network we undershepherd is in the spirit of what Paul is referring to in this passage. Immediately some of you might say "there they go again" that is,adding restrictions that stifle the spontaneous expansion of the Church.
The Truth is just the opposite. Apostolic Oversight in the Spirit of Ephesians 4:11 speaks explicitly to the contrary. At times I believe in our zeal to see a "movement" emerge we are being deceived, substituting simplistic perspective and naievity for the simple truths of church multiplication. Let's be responsive to the Spirit of discernment and be careful to "build carefully" in accordance to Paul's word in 1 Cor. 3. Because the work of disciplemaking in the SC world is that of "impartation" rather then transference of information---we want leaders in place that are pursuing Christ and the holiness He imparts. Harold here saying let's not repeat the mistakes of past revivals! We want to join Paul in having SC overseers be able to say with clear conscience "Follow Christ as you see me do".
posted by Harold Behr
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